Why Is the West Becoming Obsessed With China? | Aaron Bastani Meets Yi–Ling Liu

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The 1990s were a decade of mass technological disruption, as the internet was rolled out across the globe, and we logged on for the first time. In China, the arrival of the internet was swiftly followed by what has come to be known as the ‘great firewall’, a complex matrix of censorship, surveillance and state control. From that point on, there were two internets: the World Wide Web, and the Chinese internet.
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On Downstream this week, Aaron Bastani talks to Yi-Ling Liu, China analyst and author of the new book ‘The Wall Dancers: Searching for Freedom and Connection on the Chinese Internet’, about the cultures and innovations that have evolved in this separate digital ecosphere.
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How have sub-cultures such as feminist and LGBTQ+ movements manifested themselves through the Chinese internet? How has the Chinese Communist Party negotiated the tension between the promise and threat of both the internet and now? What is driving the innovation and tech-optimism in China in the 2020s? And how does China perceive the West, both online and off?

00:00 Introduction
02:28 Who Is Yi-Ling Liu?
03:21 Cultural Exchange Between the US and China
08:24 What Was It Like Growing Up in Hong Kong?
10:21 How History Is Taught: The Opium Wars
15:51 The Century of Humiliation
17:52 First Experiences of the World Wide Web and the Chinese Internet
20:36 The Great Firewall
22:58 Propaganda & Internet Censorship: Better or Worse in China?
28:09 The British Pseudo-Psychoanalyst Behind China’s State Propaganda
34:04 Pornography & Conservative Chinese Critiques of the West
38:13 The Tension Between the Threat & the Promise of the Internet
41:14 The Differences Between the Chinese Internet & the World Wide Internet
47:42 How Does Political Dissent and Policy Discussion Happen?
52:38 What Is a ‘Walldancer’?
54:13 Feminism & Gay Dating on the Chinese Internet
57:44 Is Xi’s China Still Producing Entrepreneurs?
1:04:07 Where Did China’s Growing Confidence Come From?
1:08:51 The Three-Body Problem
1:13:52 Chinese Science Fiction
1:17:59 Science Fiction as Satire
1:22:14 How Has China’s Innovation Changed Under Xi Jinping
1:25:59 How the West’s Reputation Has Fallen in China
1:29:17 Chinese Citizens & Westerners Interacting on the Internet
1:30:35 The USA’s Toxicity Under Trump
1:34:17 How Do Chinese People Look at Europeans
1:35:53 Tech Optimism: Why Aren’t People Black Pilled About the Internet in China?

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