Alan Hirsch on APEST, Missional Movements & Playing Without the Queen

Описание: Every pastor wrestles with how to lead beyond programs and platforms. What if the answer lies in reclaiming the Church’s full design?

In this episode, Jason sits down with Alan Hirsch—missiologist, strategist, and author of The Forgotten Ways—to explore leadership, calling, and the five-fold gifts of Ephesians 4. Alan shares how understanding APEST (apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, teacher) reshapes how we see ourselves, our churches, and our mission.

They talk about the role of the apostolic gift today, why pastors often feel misaligned in their calling, and how the Church must move beyond its Sunday-centric model to engage the world in deeper, more holistic ways.

🎧 What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
0:00 – Welcome & Introduction
1:24 – Alan’s calling and how he defines his role in the Church
5:56 – Understanding APEST and its impact on leadership
11:42 – Why churches default to shepherd-teacher models
17:33 – Burnout and gifting misalignment in pastors
22:05 – “Playing without the Queen” and the Sunday service analogy
27:40 – What the pandemic revealed about Church engagement
32:12 – Reclaiming mission, justice, and discipleship
37:44 – Building movemental churches from the ground up
42:06 – Alan’s challenge for pastors in Canada

🔑 Key Takeaways:
Five-fold gifting is essential for healthy Church leadership
Most churches over-rely on Sunday services to carry mission
Pastors need to lead from their spiritual design, not just expectations
The Church is called to mobilize disciple-makers, not just attendees

🎙 About Alan Hirsch
Alan Hirsch and Jason connect in this week’s episode to explore mission, church leadership, and the five-fold gifts in Ephesians 4. Jason starts by asking Alan how he would even define the role he has in the church, as a speaker, writer, but also movement starter, how does he see himself? Alan jokes that he isn’t always sure, but that he feels called to start movements and speak into how the Church can better lean into its mission and stay outward oriented in its functions.

🔗 Links & Resources:
🌎 Website: https://www.thepastorate.ca
📸 Instagram: / thepastorate.ca
🎙️ Podcast: https://www.thepastorate.ca/podcast
🎁 Support The Pastorate: https://www.thepastorate.ca/give
📘 Learn more about Alan’s work: https://5qcentral.com

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