Ep. 10. What the REF do people want to know?!

Описание: In this lively episode of What the Ref, Gemma, James and Simon guide listeners through the endlessly surprising world of the Research Excellence Framework. Proceedings begin with Simon recounting the final NTO workshop of the year, held at the University of Exeter, which has become the national home of hyper-efficient scrutiny. The team is now preparing an expanded workshop programme for next year.

From there, the conversation takes a dramatic turn. Mere minutes before recording, news dropped that the REF pause will end on 10 December, accompanied by major presentations from Dame Jessica Corner and the REF team. Cue excitement, mild panic, and the realisation that the next few weeks may involve emergency podcast episodes. Simon and Ola will be attending the Universities UK conference in person, and providing near-live commentary, possibly including gasps or cheers.

The trio reflect on the sector’s peculiar ‘pause that was not a pause’. Although REF planning was officially frozen, universities have continued diligently preparing outputs, impacts and PCE statements. Everyone agrees that many colleagues deserve medals, naps or both.

Listeners’ questions from the Hidden REF Festival prompt discussions about non-traditional outputs, the effort required to submit them, and the broader ambitions of the 5% manifesto. The team emphasises that the goal is not to create NTOs for the sake of it, but to recognise existing work fairly and transparently. The episode closes with an exploration of PCE, its long-overdue role in improving research culture, and a collective hope that, with REF 2029, meaningful change may finally be on the way.

If there’s anything about the REF that you would like us to investigate, please get in touch with [email protected].

Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: James Baker, Gemma Derrick - a self-confessed REF junkie - and Simon Hettrick, and our producer is Ben Thomas.